Hey Crew, this is a conversation I had with Fernan
Vargas in his excellent book AmericanCombat Masters. The book is chockful of interviews with some thoughtful
folk; I have excised some of my own Q&A in hopes that if you find this
interview or any of the other fine folks involved of interest you put the
dollars in Mr. Vargas’s pocket.
Big thanks to Fernan for the insightful questions and
the yakkity-yak opportunity!
What
martial arts have you studied? And to what degree?
Oh, man, it’s been almost exclusively boxing and
wrestling in whatever form I was digging at the moment. I have dabbled in many
other arts with good folks thru the years, but with only so many hours in the
day I always ballparked on what held my attention most, the old-school stuff.
Which
martial art is your primary discipline?
Throwing hands, twisting limbs, gouging eyes that is,
boxing, wrestling, and rough and tumble.
How
do you view your art a self defense art? A sport? Or a method for promoting
health and wellness?
Oh hell, easily all three. It all depends on what you
want to do with it. If you hit the cleaned up version of boxing and wrestling
you have a sport. You add the old school mayhem back in and add rough and
tumble and you’ve got a killing system. If you embrace the grind as all old
school boxers and wrestlers advocated then you’ve got a hardcore conditioning
regimen.
There are so many ways to answer this one, but let’s
settle on just one: Pragmatics. There is nothing airy-fairly or artsy-fartsy
about banging hard, rolling with intent,
and ripping for all its worth. It either will work or it won’t. Immediate
feedback loops based in reality allow you to hone and focus and never wonder “Hey, is this all mere theory?”
What
can you tell me about the history of your art?
Man, we could be here for days with me rambling on
about the history of this fight, or the evolution of that tactic, or the
influence of this fighter and please don’t read this statement as “Man, I know so much, I am simply astonishing
in my knowledge.” Read this as “I
looooove what I do. I looove studying this stuff. I loooove the history of the
American Frontier, the history of boxing, the history of wrestling in all its
forms.” I’m a guy who is learning the very difficult [well, difficult for
me] Comanche language so I can access more resources. I’m a guy who reads how
certain loggers prepared for both logging and “cat-fights” [sparring sessions
on logs] so I go out and drop and buck trees with 18th-century technology
picked up in antique shops so I can duplicate that training. I’m a guy who
found an odd tract on how keelboat men “read rivers” and “rail-kick” so I
started white water rafting, go to river guides to teac
What
do you see as the most unique or beneficial aspect of your art?
Unique—Hmm?
Maybe that the frontier aspect of it seems so lost. Beneficial, hell, anything
that we love to do is beneficial. I make no special claims that “my” thing is
“your” thing.
Who
were your primary or most influential instructors in your art?
My grandfather,
George Washington Goins, numero uno. Beyond that, it’s more folks from
alternate domains, historians, philosophers, soldiers, scouts, rivermen,
lumberjacks, wildcatters, mule-skinners and so on. I find so much grist for the
mill in the old works that these long dead men inform my everyday life.
Have
you ever had to use your art for self defense? If so what lessons did you learn
from the experience?
Only in the awareness aspect. I’m a big believer in
being awake, aware, and happy. If I’m wide awake enjoying everything around me
I get two benefits. The first, I have a good time. The second, if I’m always
looking for the good, I find that when things start to appear to be going a bit
sour I’m already awake to see it, I make my exit and look for the next good
thing. If I’m lucky I will escape this world unscathed by any violence beyond
what I choose for myself 6 training days per week. I love the Indian philosophy
of “Run away and live to fight another day.”
How
have the martial arts helped you in your life?
Oh, Lord, it’s given me a livelihood, friends, focus,
innumerable experiences. It’s been a net force for good in my life.
What
do you see as your major accomplishments in the martial arts?
It might be an odd answer, and my answer may not match
how others see what I do, but to my way of thinking I’m at my best when I see
an odd nexus between domains that may not at first seem combat related and make
that nexus not a trivial link, but one that is meaningful and full of utility.
What
do you see as your major contributions to the martial arts?
I may shock you in that a man who rambles as much as I
do, I really am not the judge of such a thing.
What
is your proudest moment in your career in the arts?
Hands down—the friends I’ve made. I have gotten to
meet and befriend some amazing folks around the world. That heartfelt smile and
big hugs shared when you see each other again. The laughs had, the sad parting,
but good memories carried away and looking forward to the next time. So many of
these experiences came from me being involved in this violent business. I’m
proudest of those human times with friends.
What
do you think of the current state of your art? (how its practiced, taught,
etc?)
Boxing, wrestling, MMA—going strong. I’ve got no
complaints.
How
do you envision the future of your art?
Zero idea. I’m shit for predictions, and think most
folks are as well. Put me down in the “Looking forward to being surprised”
column.
What
piece of advice could you share with new martial artists?
Have fun! Oh, and contact. If you are trying to get
thru a martial activity unscathed, you may have chosen the wrong creative
expression. I’m not saying everyone needs to be knocked out, but everyone does
need to be knocked about.
How
do you view Warriorship? What does it mean to you?
This is a good question and a complex one. Warriorship
is most likely an overlay of “moral” force or “nobility” on top of a violent
pursuit. It says more about the intent of those who advocate Warriorship than
it does the combat arts themselves. There are plenty of folks who engage in
fighting who have zero nobility, and there are plenty who engage in fighting
who are the tip-top of humanity. I wager Warriorship is the good man or woman
bringing that goodness to the fore and by dint of being a warrior we assume
that the art fostered that. I have a personal code of ethics and I take it
mighty seriously, but I’m not sure it derived from fighting. With that said, I
do think that the grit demanded by martial endeavors can make the resolve
stronger in both directions, the criminal warrior can be harder and meaner and
the honorable man can become stronger in resolve by dint of the confidence of
the hard skills hard won.
What
are the things that you are most excited about the current state of martial
arts?
In my little corner of the world? I’ve got stacks and
stacks of historical resources to get through and this stack grows by the week.
Each week gleans a new aspect or tactic to be played with. Now that is
exciting! A seemingly unending supply of wild information waiting to be panned
for gold.
What
are the things that concern you most about the current state of martial arts
today?
To be honest, and no disrespect intended, I pay little
attention to what goes on outside of what I do. That is not a position of
superiority, it is one that recognizes how easily my attention can be captured
and I would take focus off of my work. You know the whole, “Which is a better
use of my time Facebook or reading John Cremony’s Apache history and/or making
sense of an old journal on the top of my stack?”
Where
can people find more information about you and your art?
They can go to www.extremeselfprotection.com You can
also sign up for a free newsletter there and read my blog where I gush about
something historical or combat related. Or, for the deep-divers, join the RAWCrew for the immersive hands-on training in your mailbox each and every month.
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